Forum

Rule 26.30

Suggest that stowing winch cable penalty should only apply to wrapping on horns or other stowing system and not handling the cable while spooling it on and off the drum.
[Modified by: Jeremy Walker on 06 November 2008 17:15:51 ]

Is it a penalty to hold the rope while its feeding onto the drum?????(not connected to a anchor point)

No it isn't, or at least shouldn't be.

In Rotorua this year, one marshal interpreted the stowing winch cable penalty to also apply to handling the rope while feeding it onto the drum. That wasn't the intention of that rule so it just needs a bit of re-wording to explicitly allow feeding the rope onto the drum so we don't have the same thing happen again.

And I think I should make it clear that this particular marshal wasn't at fault, but instead those of us who wrote the rule. There was definitely room for his interpretation even though it wasn't our intention.

As i understand it as long as the hook is not conected to anything the cable is NOT LIVE or the same must apply when the winch man is holding onto the hook/cable while the winch is being powered out prior to hooking up .At present in our last comps we have had two much rope on the horns once or twice so when my winchman has reached the anchor point he has held the cable tight while i have taken up the slack then conected the hook so cable is then LIVE so cant be touched .When winching has been completed the hook has been disconected placed on the horns and balance of rope wound on by hand once he has finished and lets go of the rope i power the last bit in to secure the rope as i understand the rules as long as the winch is not being powered in while the winchman is stowing away the rope there is no penalty .

Quote stephen reed:

as i understand the rules as long as the winch is not being powered in while the winchman is stowing away the rope there is no penalty .

That was the intention of the rules committee at the time. The plan at present is to just redefine the 'stowing' rule to make sure the way you describe it is the only way it can be interpreted

...unless of course, anyone has any better ideas?

It seems that everyone understands the rule except that marshal....

There were several different interpretations at the Manukau 4WD Club Winch Challenge this weekend, so the wording of this rule definitely needs some work.
[Modified by: Jeremy Walker on November 09, 2008 08:14 PM]

I think the differing interpretations at Manukau proves that a rewording is needed.
I think people also need to be aware that the only thing that is being stopped is while someone is wrapping rope on the horns the winch may NOT be operated. The rope may be controlled on to the drum for the last bit. There is nothing in this rule about powering in or out or anything else. It is specifically about stowing the cable.
We are also looking at the cable 'Live' and 'under tension" handling rules to simplify this part of the equation as well.

The operative words for this rule are stowing cable.
I think that when we first discussed this we where going to say Winch operation is not permitted anytime the cable is being manually stowed on to the horns or bulbar, same as 26.29insecure winch cable. Tensioning with the winch is after stowing has finished.
This rule is not intended to stop cable being feed on to the drum in the normal way and doesn’t read that way. I like the Manukau rule that hands must not be closer than 500mm from the fair lead when feeding the cable

Quote Tim Fensom:

It seems that everyone understands the rule except that marshal....

The marshal was 100 % right with the rules . The teams had been getting away with it for quite some time and i thought the rule was quite clear. Safety first . When the hock is conected to an object it is live "full stop". When stowing winch rope and you wont to tighten that last small bit of rope to keep it with in another rule keep hands clear dont touch. electrical winchers have the habit of staying on at the wrong time and pto drives can in gauge if foot slips of clutch when in gear . Good idea about the 1/2 metre away from the winch my winch is in the back. and one mans MEASUREMENT is different to another. Simple , When winch is going dont touch rope. easy .
Cheers Klembo

A winch cable is deemed live once it is connected to the winching anchor point. The rules interpretation section talks about a "physical attachment of the vehicle with the winching anchor point". It doesn't mention anywhere that connecting the winch rope back to the vehicle is a live cable, which we know it isn't because when you setup a double line pull you hook the rope to the car first, before connecting the snatch block to the winching anchor point.

But yes, you are right, that marshal was 100% correct to rule the way he did, even though many of us thought otherwise at the time. We just need to decide whether we want that interpretation to continue, or do we change the rule to be more specific.

i got pinged by the same marshal whilst trying to remove the cable from the horns! even though the winch was in freespool there was tension on the rope as it was tied off, i had to pull on the rope to release the tension and got pinged?? we did get the penalty reversed but its just another interpretation of the rule...