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Interesting thought! It does sort of mean a production class. So you would end up with an entry level class, a production class, a challenge class and an outlaw class.

As soon as the Outlaw got talked about I figured that I'd end up there and don't really have a problem with it. I really like the idea of having very different trucks racing each other and having big diesels and V8's racing Suzukis on equal footing is just great fun!

Apart from the entry level club class i dont see any reason why we couldnt all do the same tracks I"E mix up the outlaw and challenge class in groups it would make for some very interesting inter group battles going on ..

The challenge class that you describe Steve sounds very much like the CCDA production class. Which basically is...

- standard body & chassis
- standard drive train
- standard suspension configuration and wheelbase
- standard motor
- standard winch
- 35" tyres

I have not been to a lot of comps so correct me if im wrong. It would seem to me that the average comp would only have 15ish compeditors, so with four classes we would only have 3 compeditors (of 15) who did not get 1st 2nd or 3rd. I believe Daryin Bell somewhere has written words to the effect of "lets have a class for every set of mods, that way everybody can come first in class"

It seems we are getting beyond ourselves.

How about 2 classes, club and comp. We all know what a club truck is (pick some basic rules such as Jeremy has stated above) and if it goes out side that, then your in comp class.

Back to the point, Let them mix chassis and body cause it wont make much difference to what people are running anyway. Like Darin said, it will just make it cheaper.

The addional classes are attraching more people to compete so are making the comps bigger. So you will still get your 15 or so in Challenge class plus the club class is already getting that number. I think the biggest issue will be dealing with the addional numbers that the classes encourage. More than 20 to 24 trucks makes for a head ache, just ask Sam after having 28 at Vegas a couple of years ago!

Hi Arron,I can understand what your saying re everybody coming in the top 3 and i dont trhink that would happen ,at the last Norwest Club class we had 18 trucks all but 2or3 would qualify under the rules Jeremy has posted ,At the last Norwest (challenge) comp i think we had around the 18 trucks also of those i can think of at least 8 or 9 trucks that would have to go to Outlaw ,also by opening up the outlaw class there must be trucks out there that are excluded under current rules who would then compete the same will happen to the club class if its for the more (standard) truck ,The one downside i can see is for the Event organisers having to limit the number of entrys if its open to all classes
PS at next years Norwest we are running both classes,Challenge and club class and i would expect to have close to 20 trucks in each class..

"PS at next years Norwest we are running both classes,Challenge and club class and i would expect to have close to 20 trucks in each class.. "

yep and i have a headache allready!!!

Thanks Guys, It would seem I stand corrected. If opening up the rues would get that many more people to comps than lets do it.

Sorry organisers.

sorry boys just woke up last time i checked doing a body swap was anything but cheap after compliance and prozak pills for all the bullshit they put you thru i had to do it with the nissan . and that was just putting a GQ body back on a GQ chassis be interesting to see how many chassis numbers match their vin plates on trucks at the moment . and im pretty sure wayne makenzies truck wasnt street legal but i could be wrong. i couldnt giv a shit wat body people want to run if they want the headache of doing it good on them . personally i dont think it will make a hell of alot of difference plus i cant fit a 4.2 deisel in a suzuki .

I have recently had an email inviting me to reply to a question surrounding this body swap issue. I voted No as a Yes / No was required. Its not a yes no issue as far as I can see.
I voted No as I had not really thought this through, what this really takes is the following Classes:

Entry level (beginners less than 2 events evaluated by Challenges Delegate)
Club ( standard vehicle in most ways, current rules same body chassis combo)
Dummies ( modified no holes bared except portals tire size limited to 35” Coil over conv)

All of the above must be road legal cert and Insured.
To expand the sport these vehicles must be catered for, I would like to think that If as competitors you are asked to drive to stages using the public road then we all comply.

The reason for the yes / no was that we have had a lot of discussion about this via forums, email, in person and at the last meeting. We wanted a poll done to get as many answers as possible so that it could be used along with all the other feedback to see what people wanted.
The general concesus was to allow it but it wasn't a big enough majority for us to make the decision without even more supporting information.
This rule change has created more discusion than any other and so we are being very carefult to ensure we are doing what the MAJORITY want.

What poll?

Poll for current and past members / competitors. Just one more tool we are using and the poll is to give us another view point.

Ahh, I see.
But why not put it up for every one to vote on?

Just wondering, how many members does 4x4 Challenges have?

Tim, the membership records show 19 paid members of 4x4 Challenges NZ Inc.

However, the voting on the rules has not been restricted to members and there has been an attempt to canvass the wider community. It would certainly make it easier to have those who are interested as members! At present there seems little incentive to belong when people can have a say without being a member. The current annual fee is $6 if you are already a NZFWDA member through another club. (otherwise the additional NZFWDA fee is $28) There is a joining fee of $20 too.

Peter

Everyone has had their chance to have their say! We decided that we would give current competitors one last chance. The results of the survey are not going to be the absolute answer, they are just another tool. If anyone still thinks that the process isn't fair then they haven't been following what is happening. There have been so many oppotunities for people to get involved and as Peter has said they don't even need to be members to have their say. As of the begining of next year this will change as to compete in a sanctioned event you will have to join 4x4 challenges. Both Nor-West and the Northland comps will have this as an entry requirement. It will only cost $26 to join (and $6 per year there after) and this will also entitle you to a log book which will save you money.

Like has been said many times, we want and need the feed back otherwise we are wasting our time. As to this rule it would appear that people are very evenly split which is why we are being so careful to canvas those actually involved rather than just those that make the loudest noise. We do not want the sport controlled by the vocal minority which is a hard thing to achieve. So if the vocal minority don't like the outcome I don't really care. The decisions being made are about the sport and not about individual opinions.

There have been several rule decisions made that I personally don't agree with BUT the majority decided otherwise and I 100% support that. People need to step back and look at how it will affect the sport and not just them personally. If it makes the sport stronger and allows more people to be involved then we should change the rules. Just because it may disadvantge a particular person doesn't mean it is a bad thing. We may need to make allowances in the short term if this happens and this is a likely outcome.

As I've said many times, people can call me direct and talk about this or anything else. 0275 330637

HI Darin,
Have you had much feedback from the Mainland re this rule?

It was allowed in our series but I don't think it affected anyone this season but it did last year. Reason I ask is if you are wanting to do a National comp then obviously they'd need to be the same!!

Hi Glen
The plan for the 2009 National final is that is you comply with your 'home' competition rules then you will be accepted for the final. We hope to have a national set of rules to trial at the final and if they work there, they could be the base for something being adopted in 2010 for both islands. A lot to be sorted through though! One idea being tossed around is that we try the rules at the final and then while we are all together we can thrash out something for the following year.
The hardest part at present is that we not only need to rationalise the rules we als need to have consistancy through the classes. There is no point having an anything goes approach to club class and then not being able to just upgrade that truck for the challenge class. I think all the right ideas are out there we just need to put them together.

The will is there from all sides, we just need to find a way of keeping most people happy. Both islands have rules that don't fit with the others and we are both going to have to make concessions to get it together. We are working on a document that will outline the differences so that we know exactly what needs to be sorted. Hopefully that will be published soon so that we all know what we need to work out. This rule is one of them, as is the WOF rule and few others.

We'll get there though!

Flame suit on but this was also brought up in Taupo.

Does this really need to be an issue?
As an example, I'm building a new truck (road legal to current challenge class rule) that is currently 2 chassis rails with everything else removed. I will put in new cross members where I need them but have the factory number as required. So whether this is a Nissan or Toyota chassis is completely irrelevant in my book.
Again this has no effect on what I'm building, and some would have done things differently if it was an option but what is it really even relevant anymore?

I think you should be able to cut the chassis rail, and stitch them back again as long as you produce a engineers report stating its safe ,as per mixing / matching bodies etc as long as its of a sim size i:e no suzuki:s on a safari Chassis whats the problem? ..