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There is a lot of talk about club class trucks and how do you work out which truck can stay in club or move to a different class.I feel it un fair to say to any one, You need to go to a different class you keep wining or your truck might be too good.This is just an idea and might need more input from you guys, but this is what I think might help set the truck rules.
I have worked out what the challenge trucks have in the way of mods and what a std truck would come out of the factory with.

The idea is done with point for each mod you add to your truck and when you get to 500 mod points you then go to a different class.

A One diff lock =50 points
B Second diff lock=50 points
C One mod to winch=50 points air/cable free spool
D Second mod to winch=50 points drum mod
E Suspension up grade =50 points up to 65mm spring lift
F Change suspension mounting=50 points per diff
G Shocks =50 points longer and larger or extra chocks
H Change the induction system=50 points
I Add NOS =50 points
J Cut cab down =50 points change full cab to a single cab
K Diff mods =50 points strengthen / shave
L Upgrade Cvs=50 points
M Guard mods =50 points cut guards to fit larger tyres
N 35+inch tires =50 points
O Bead locks =50 points
P Move diffs from OME =50 points
Q Engine up grade=50 points any thing larger than STD
R fit extra batters =50 points more the STD amount
S Radiator mods = 50 points
T Pto hydro winch=50 points
U body lift or lower=50 points
V Change to different gear box/auto=50 points
W X
Y Z

No points for any safety equipment, could look at taking points of for full cage????

If I was to set up a club truck I could buy a Toyota or a Nissan or my Suzuki I all ready have and with this list I could mod to suit my budget
If it came out with an Lsd in rear I would keep it in or take the points and add the rear diff lock
I would add front diff lock =50
I would add rear diff lock =50
I would free spool winch and upgrade motor =100
I would put in after market springs 65 mm lift =50
Up grade shocks =50
Fit 32inch tires =00
Fit 4 point roll cage =00
Fit 4 point belts =00
Fit super charger =50
Fit bead lock rims =50
Add extra batteries =50
Finish of the roll cage to 6 point =00
Total 450

With these mods I am still a club class 4x4 and can still drive on the road (still need a low volume cert)

If I was to go into challenge I would add
Bigger engine =50 points
Twin winch motors= 50 points
Coil springs front=50 points
Coil springs in rear=50 points
Wider diffs front=50 points
Wider diff rear=50 points
Lower diff ratio=50 points
Move front diff forward=50 points
Rear diff back =50 points
Cut the back of the well side = 50 points
Fit back up winch =50 points
Fit 35 inch tires =50 points
Fit different gear box=50 points
Total 650 more than club (and all would need Low volumes cert)

There are a few others that could be added to the list of points. Just think what you have on your 4x4 that is not factory. Think of other 4x4 that are out there, and what you could add, Then work out the points.

E.g. Some Nissans and hilux and land cruisers come out with rear diff lock cool that would save some points but if you change to an air locker the points then get added
Factory ones don’t work as fast and can be electric or vacuum Same goes for the coils there are Pros and Cons Nissan heavy and Toyota lighter and may not twist as well. Suzuki is lighter and can be more nimble.

The REG/WOF is optional in this class and when you reach 500 points you go challenge or Challenge supper modified

The choice is yours
These are just a few things that came to mind and could be changed to suit the class.
What do you think, and keep it clean, no name throwing.

Cheers Klembo

(posted on behalf)
Hi Klem

Maybe another way is say get the truck spec’s done ie shocks winches etc sorted out.
Then go to a handicap where as to say

1st 50 points pen
2nd 40
3rd 30
4th 20
5th 10

The reason being you could have all the gear like you mentioned and still drive like shit but be punished with losing the points to start with.
This way if you come 1st say at Manukau then you would start Taupo on -50 2nd 40 and so on.
The points would only be for the following event if you were to miss it then you would you would be back at zero as missing one would affect your overall standing in the round anyway.
The points are just a guest but with this the top guys would have to push it a bit to regain their 50 points back and would possibly move the next five guys up within reach
Just an idea might be a bit easier to police because everyone knows what the results are.
Cheers
GLEN (aka Larry)

Below is a post from the classes thread.

A few more things that could incur points that dont seem out of place compared to some already stated.

changing front diff housing from oem 50 points
changing rear diff housing from oem 50 points
changing transfer case from oem 50 points
also i think V should read change from oem gear box/auto

All above are just as relevant as cvs etc

Also a i dont believe that you can discriminate between a factory locker and an aftermarket locker A LOCKER IS A LOCKER both inccur points or neither incurr points.

Cheers Scott

I think the suspension lift rule should be points for lift OVER 65mm only. Same for shocks etc. The point is a 50mm lift is virtually a standard thing anyway so why penalise for it?

Can someone clarriffy is this a engine upgrade putting a bigger engine in from the same model,or putting a turbo on from the same model of vehicle or is this an upgrade?.do these things earn 50 points or is it more aimed at something totally different as in a 6cyl into a four cylinder vehicle or a nissan into a toyota ? keen on how people see it. cheers Scott

The way I see it is if you have a Hilux engine in a Hilux then no penalty so even if you have gone to a bigger motor or a turbo version as long as it is from that model who cares??

Quote Scott Brassey:

Can someone clarriffy is this a engine upgrade putting a bigger engine in from the same model,or putting a turbo on from the same model of vehicle or is this an upgrade?.do these things earn 50 points or is it more aimed at something totally different as in a 6cyl into a four cylinder vehicle or a nissan into a toyota ? keen on how people see it. cheers Scott

we just chucking idea's around scott

What do you reckon?? Do you think they should be allowed in with out occuring points??

Just throw your opinions and reason's for it for everyone to consider

I agree with Darin on Springs lift. Penalty happens above 50mm.

Penaulty incurred above 10% increase in tyre diameter from standard??

For example if you are running 30X9.5's on your zook, or 33's on you safari, or 31's on your Hilux, which are the max you can squeeze on to the vehicle in standard trim, then that should be alowed??

35's on a safari, 33's on a Hilux, 31's on a zook all require a certain amount of modification, such as body lift, suspension lift or gaurd chop, front axle moving or a combination of those.

Just thinking aloud

Quote Darin Neeley:

The way I see it is if you have a Hilux engine in a Hilux then no penalty so even if you have gone to a bigger motor or a turbo version as long as it is from that model who cares??

Thats ok for some make's and models, others there aren't to many options..

If its changed from what that individual vehicle came out with standard, then is a modification surely??

I agree though, its more amied at the major modifications that make a truck stand out from the rest.

So changing from a standard 2.4 diesel to a 3L V6 petrol is good for the truck, but not going to make it earth shatteringly amazing, so no big deal.........

[Modified by: Peter Hall on November 26, 2009 03:44 PM]

So what is the difference between some having a 2.7 terrano and fitting a factory turbo to it or replacing the motor with the 3.0 V6?
Or would you prefer that they had to sell the truck and buy a new one?
Or maybe they just get the vin plate and change that over?
What does it REALLY effect?

Actually just rethinking that. For an ease of scrutineering it could be as simple as match the vin plate and no penalty????

.........and if it doesn't have a Vin plate, chances are its been modified to the point where a transplants obvious.

Thing is though, proof of that engine coming standard in the vehicle somewhere in the world would need to supplied with the log book application, so would already have been delt with??

Would anticipate that the full list of mod's would be in the log, so its just a matter of checking for mods out side that????

When i first read what Klem wrote i thought it meant all mods even bigger motors from same vehicle but those that i talked to all saw it as Darrin has written it .I even thought going from carbs to fuel injection or turbo was a mod but again those i spoke to said if it is from same vehicle they saw it as no problem with it just an upgrade not a mod.Thats reason i posed the question.
On your tyre thought i dont think you can have vehicle specific rules as all vehicles have pros and cons and some vehicles come out with 33" tyres from factory but not aware of a vehicle with 35" as standard .
Also just for the record 32" fit with no body lift and no guard cut on a hilux just wrecks your tyres on the front.

The idea is to keep it simple.
If you can buy a 4x4 like the one you are building and it came out with a 3l v6 and you have the 2.8d then that could be a std type 4x4. No points. If you make it to hard to under stand no one will do it.
The thing is to work out all sorts of mods that make up a top winch truck and give them all the same points value and then it will be up to the owner as to what mods he/she would like to add.
I thought that if you wanted to enter your std truck with out a 4 point roll bar the you have 50 points added to start with and later if you fit the rollover protection and belts the 50 points come off. Then you could add another mod.
Don't try and make it to hard it does not matter if you changed the motor so long as you could of pick it up x factory all 4wd have there plus factor and if you work it out a soft top v6 diff lock pajero pto winch would be the only club truck in the event, Not likely

Think out side the square take my ford courier 2.5dt. What does it need to have fun in a club class comp.?
Winch, 31inch tires , bar work , diff locks , more hp , more electricity , suspension , go on a diet , KISS Keep it simple stupid.
work the points aprox 350 point plus 50 for free spool 50 bigger winch motor. still in. 35 inch tyres still in , need lower ratio diffs bugger over now fit roll bar and belts back in , could be quit a lot of fun think I might give it a go.
Cheers Klembo

so does that mean we are going to see your ford courier work ute in the next 4x4 competition now klem??

Just reading though this proposed new system, I don’t disagree with this system at all, easy to police and you have a choice.
But I think maybe the threshold to jumping up a class could be lowered or the points added for modification could be higher. Under the new proposal, as it stands at the moment my truck could still be run in club class with 50 points to spare, and if the “points off” for a full cage was implemented, I could upgrade the diffs and put 35s on and still stay in. Not sayin I would, just that it could be done.
Maybe you could add something along the lines of “if the suspension is changed from ome concept” you go up anyway or a further 50 points per axle. i.e. leafs to coils, or leafs to air bags etc
A One diff lock =50 points 50
B Second diff lock=50 points 50
C One mod to winch=50 points air/cable free spool 50 (second motor only)
D Second mod to winch=50 points drum mod
E Suspension up grade =50 points up to 65mm spring lift 50
F Change suspension mounting=50 points per diff 50 + 50
G Shocks =50 points longer and larger or extra chocks 50
H Change the induction system=50 points
I Add NOS =50 points
J Cut cab down =50 points change full cab to a single cab (std uncut Jeep body)
K Diff mods =50 points strengthen / shave (std Dana 30 and 35 diffs)
L Upgrade Cvs=50 points
M Guard mods =50 points cut guards to fit larger tyres
N 35+inch tires =50 points (33”)
O Bead locks =50 points 50
P Move diffs from OME =50 points (ome position)
Q Engine up grade=50 points any thing larger than STD (smaller in fact 4.2 out 4.0 in)
R fit extra batters =50 points more the STD amount 50
S Radiator mods = 50 points
T Pto hydro winch=50 points
U body lift or lower=50 points 50
V Change to different gear box/auto=50 points
Bernie

A couple of competitors and I sat down last weekend and discussed the"Klem System" for quite a while. We scored some current trucks, some proposed trucks and some purely hypothetical trucks. All in all we consider this a very good way to define the difference between a club class and a challenge class truck. We did however have some thoughts on individual items, some we considered double counting, some needed detail in the interpretation and one we thought philosophically was wrong.

A&B - Lockers, may need to include other traction aids such as traction control
C&D - Winch mods - each modification from stock scores points, air/cable free spool, drum modifications, twin motors
E - Suspension upgrade, we considered any suspension upgrade up to 50mm should score no points, Anything over 50mm scores points
F - Change suspension mounting - agreed.
G - Longer bigger shocks. We disagree with this as it is part of the suspension upgrade. Twin shocks, hydraulic/air bump stops should score points
H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O & P - agree
Q & V - Engine and gearbox mods. Only score points if the engine or gearbox is not available in that vehicle eg you can change your 70 Series 13bt with an auto to a 1HZ with a manual with no penalty, but if you put a 350 Chev in it you do score points.
R - agree
S - Don't agree, this is generally covered under other items. If you have to drop the radiator because of a body lift or mount the radiator forward a bit to fit a Lexus into a Hilux you have already scored points. Might need to consider if an upgraded radiator without any other modes that score should score points.
T - agree with hydraulic winch should score. Factory PTO in factory position shouldn't score. Modifications to PTO score as per C&D above plus non factory PTO (Nissan MQ PTO on a GQ) or non factory position (rear mount PTO) scores, but no double counting eg a rear mounted MQ PTO on a GQ only scores once.
U - Agree

With these modifications the 500 point cut off might have to be lowered. Definately don't agree with handicapping winning trucks.

Do we need to penalise for fitting extra batteries? It seems like this is a bit un-fair to the electric winches, as without them they become pretty limited, whereas a standard PTO doesn't need any extras to make it work.

And just out of interest...
I just added up the points for our Hilux using Bernies list above, and it comes in at exactly 500 points, or 550 if you include swapping the standard prado auto for a lexus auto (which are almost the same ...well close enough). Which is interesting as I had guessed we would be over the limit.

As I see it if you mod any thing there should be Points. We all like to change things it is really what challenge class is built on If you start out in a std type 4x4 you will add something to it could be LPG might be a diff lock bigger battery or two who knows but with the point system straight away
you will have people wanting to have a go in a club class winch comp..
If it is 500 points or 5000 it does not matter it will put every one on the same playing field and the class will grow. When we started out it was a std hilux with a auto diff lock in the rear and a high mount second hand winch in the front one battery springs were re bent on a block of steel and std shocks. No roll bar and a 2.4 d non turbo.
This is the true form of club class. My truck now with using the (mods system) is over 1150 points. If we allow some mods and not others we end up like challenge with some people questioning the one thing that makes the class.
If your truck hits the 500 the next lot of mods you need to do will add hundreds on to your truck in a very short time and are big dollars.
You can in most trucks run a 50 mm lift and just get the std shocks on (not ideal) but can be done. Fit bigger or longer is a mod more points.

It’s up to you guys how it works and how you set it up just remember the new guy coming in to the sport and don’t set it up to suit a small few.
What you guys are doing is right talk about it get different views.
If all mods have points it easy to police and remember when the comp day comes around.
(Modification system) sounds like a better name
See you all at the meeting
Cheers Klembo

Quote Klem Christensen:

My truck now with using the (mods system) is over 1150 points.

Ha ha, Mine only got to 950points L.O.L.!!!!!!

geeez klem you must be driving a space ship! i only got to 800!