Rules

Classes

Tue, 27 Jul 2010 09:57:38 GMT

Firstly, this is a discussion, this is not notification that things are changing. Things are changing which is why we need this discussion. Please make coments that are constructive and are about how we can work together to keep growing the numbers. Remember that we have had 20 or more trucks at every event this year but that we have a large group or trucks that haven't raced due to offroad racing or rebuilding etc. And these are guys with many years experience doing WC. It is becoming aparent that there is a problem with the current Club and Challenge class rules. Now first and foremost the goal is to promote more people to compete AND to have it safe and fair. The other very important thing is to make it easy for event organisers. So with that in mind, I have been talking to a few people and this is the 'feeling' as I see it. Currently the Club Class is too open with a big gap between those at the top and those at the bottom. Challenge Class is very restrictive and promotes very similar trucks to race and a lot of club class trucks would struggle to move into challenge class. My thoughts on Challenge are It is a production type rule so it has to be restrictive. Production classes by the name do restrict development and it always becomes a case of everyone being very similar in approach. The current crop of new trucks that are getting smaller with more power and bigger winches is a classic example. A down side can be cheque book racing. WOF, Rego LVV etc are essential to maintaining this class. My thoughts on Club are This should be so the average guy can compete in the his club type truck / daily driver. The coarses should be such that a 4 point cage is all that is required ie speed kept down etc. There should be no restriction on who competes so you can stay there as long as you like. Trucks that are too modified shouldn't be in this class. WOF etc should be required or the truck should be to WOF spec minus lights etc like a lot of bush trucks are. It is about intention not legality. Tyres maybe should be limited to 35.5? This then creates the need for a third class, lets call it Modified. The intention of this class would be to allow you to race in a truck that you have built for whatever purpose. Maybe a trails truck with a winch or an offroad race truck with a winch. So as long as it has 4x4, a winch and meets all the other safety rules it should be able to race. Eg it should have 1/2 doors (or equivilant sid eprotection), a roof, a body, 6 point rollcage etc. Space frame chassis, mix and match bodies etc are all allowed. Tyres would have to be restricted but maybe to a slightly bigger size (37.5 maybe)? The goal of this class is to allow guys with a focus on something else, to still do winch challenges without a huge amount of COST, and still keep it fair for others. Lets be clear here that this is a discussion about how to make things easy, cheaper and to encourage more people to get involved. At present the Club class seems to be effecting the Challenge class due to no real differences between them. It would be very hard to create these differences and still allow everyone currently racing to continue. Imediately Bernie, Dan and Wayne MacKenzie come to mind as people with trycks that don't really fit Club class or Challenge and no one will ever say that they shouldn't be able to race or that what they are doing is intentionally unfair. (or unfair at all) So to ensure we protect what has been started with the Club Class and revive the Challenge Class do we need a third class with some very basic rules (like club class) that allows the more extreme side of the sport to florish? Have your say and then we can discuss it further at the meeting in Taupo.

The Klem system.

Sat, 12 Dec 2009 02:15:47 GMT

There is a lot of talk about club class trucks and how do you work out which truck can stay in club or move to a different class.I feel it un fair to say to any one, You need to go to a different class you keep wining or your truck might be too good.This is just an idea and might need more input from you guys, but this is what I think might help set the truck rules. I have worked out what the challenge trucks have in the way of mods and what a std truck would come out of the factory with. The idea is done with point for each mod you add to your truck and when you get to 500 mod points you then go to a different class. A One diff lock =50 points B Second diff lock=50 points C One mod to winch=50 points air/cable free spool D Second mod to winch=50 points drum mod E Suspension up grade =50 points up to 65mm spring lift F Change suspension mounting=50 points per diff G Shocks =50 points longer and larger or extra chocks H Change the induction system=50 points I Add NOS =50 points J Cut cab down =50 points change full cab to a single cab K Diff mods =50 points strengthen / shave L Upgrade Cvs=50 points M Guard mods =50 points cut guards to fit larger tyres N 35+inch tires =50 points O Bead locks =50 points P Move diffs from OME =50 points Q Engine up grade=50 points any thing larger than STD R fit extra batters =50 points more the STD amount S Radiator mods = 50 points T Pto hydro winch=50 points U body lift or lower=50 points V Change to different gear box/auto=50 points W X Y Z No points for any safety equipment, could look at taking points of for full cage???? If I was to set up a club truck I could buy a Toyota or a Nissan or my Suzuki I all ready have and with this list I could mod to suit my budget If it came out with an Lsd in rear I would keep it in or take the points and add the rear diff lock I would add front diff lock =50 I would add rear diff lock =50 I would free spool winch and upgrade motor =100 I would put in after market springs 65 mm lift =50 Up grade shocks =50 Fit 32inch tires =00 Fit 4 point roll cage =00 Fit 4 point belts =00 Fit super charger =50 Fit bead lock rims =50 Add extra batteries =50 Finish of the roll cage to 6 point =00 Total 450 With these mods I am still a club class 4x4 and can still drive on the road (still need a low volume cert) If I was to go into challenge I would add Bigger engine =50 points Twin winch motors= 50 points Coil springs front=50 points Coil springs in rear=50 points Wider diffs front=50 points Wider diff rear=50 points Lower diff ratio=50 points Move front diff forward=50 points Rear diff back =50 points Cut the back of the well side = 50 points Fit back up winch =50 points Fit 35 inch tires =50 points Fit different gear box=50 points Total 650 more than club (and all would need Low volumes cert) There are a few others that could be added to the list of points. Just think what you have on your 4x4 that is not factory. Think of other 4x4 that are out there, and what you could add, Then work out the points. E.g. Some Nissans and hilux and land cruisers come out with rear diff lock cool that would save some points but if you change to an air locker the points then get added Factory ones don’t work as fast and can be electric or vacuum Same goes for the coils there are Pros and Cons Nissan heavy and Toyota lighter and may not twist as well. Suzuki is lighter and can be more nimble. The REG/WOF is optional in this class and when you reach 500 points you go challenge or Challenge supper modified The choice is yours These are just a few things that came to mind and could be changed to suit the class. What do you think, and keep it clean, no name throwing. Cheers Klembo

"super modified" rules...

Fri, 11 Dec 2009 01:55:09 GMT

Rule 5.4 - Inner Guards

Mon, 30 Nov 2009 01:45:14 GMT

Rule 5.4 currently states "The inner guards may be altered to allow for suspension and engine fitment but must remain readily recognisable as OEM." Is this rule still needed? The intent of the rules have always been for the vehicle to remain readily recognisable as OEM forward of the ‘B’ pillar forward. My reasoning is as follows: 1. I feel the OEM inner guard does not contribute to the OEM look. As long as you can't see the engine through the wheel arch it maintains the OEM look 2. There are several trucks out there that have almost no inner guards due to the amount cut out to fit suspension and engines 3. Cost - I know of a competitor that has on at least two occasions basically had to weld a new front onto his truck, at considerable expense, after hitting things. If the inner guard rule was dropped he would be running a tube frame above the OEM chassis to carry the guards, grill and bonnet, making for a much cheaper repair but still retaining the OEM exterior look. I dont think we should drop the rule entirely. The trucks should still have some form of inner guard but not necessarily OEM. [Modified by: Justin Williams on 26 November 2009 12:04:04 ]

Modified Class

Mon, 30 Nov 2009 00:42:15 GMT

By now most of you (hopefully) will have received a set of specs for a proposed new class. So what do you think? Too far, not far enough? Let buggies in, keep them out?

Spare tyre

Fri, 27 Nov 2009 01:49:46 GMT

Currently it is ambiguois as to whether you have to carry a spare tyre. Yes it must be the same size but it doesn't if you must carry it while competing. To save any hassles I suggest we add a clause to say you must carry the spare wile competing.

Allow body and chassis to be of mixed manufacturer?

Thu, 26 Nov 2009 03:39:45 GMT

Rule 5.1

Chassis Mods

Thu, 26 Nov 2009 00:16:44 GMT

Within the current rules you can't change the width or length of the chassis. You must maintain factory number of cross members and the chassis can only be shortened to the edge of the tyres. So what if you want to change the profile of the chassis rail to allow for a better motor placement or greater axles travel? My interpretation of the rules is that this is possible as long as it is then certified, what do others think and what should the interpretation be? Eg Are the chassis rails allowed to be modified for axle travel and motor placement? Along similar lines, you must run factory style inner guards but they can be modified for suspension, tyres and motor clearance. Should the same be for chassis?

Stage Disqualification

Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:25:12 GMT

I would like to sugest a change to the rule for being disqualified for leaving the course- If you accidentialy leave the course and finish the rest of the track- if you still have time remaining to the d.n.f. you should be given the option of going back to where you stuffed up and redoing the track in the time you have remaining- It seems a bit on the chin, when you do the majority of the track( and sometimes a lot more), to be given zero points for a stage, when someone who may break their truck in the first 100 meters of the stage can still pick up 20 points. Just a thought?

Excessive Wheel Spin

Wed, 18 Nov 2009 01:24:23 GMT

With the rules up for review, It might be the time to bring this rule and the deemed stuck rule into alignment with the current practice's?? Its mainly obvious to a new comer to the sport like myself, that whats actually written in the rule's and how that rule is implemented in practice is significantly different. All you guy's that have been doing it for ever know exactly what the story is, warning blast's of the hooter and all that...... (It got explained to me on another forum, so i get the intention of the rule, so we don't need to go through it all again) All I am suggesting is that the rule be re-worded to reflect what we all do in practice (this will also effect the deemed stuck rule ) Or, we leave the rule written as it is and adhere to what it actually says. [Modified by: Peter Hall on 16 November 2009 17:30:45 ]

AGM

Tue, 17 Nov 2009 23:59:04 GMT

When is the AGM gonna be held?

Rear mounted radiators

Tue, 17 Nov 2009 09:46:03 GMT

Rule 6.3

Battery isolation switch

Tue, 17 Nov 2009 03:16:37 GMT

This is a new rule which last year was decided to be added for 2009. It seems there is support for this, but we need feedback to help decide the finer details. Something that hasn't been discussed much thus far, is whether an isolation switch should be required for winch batteries as well as the main car battery, or not?

Battery Isolation

Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:18:49 GMT

What is the intention of this rule?? In the event of a miss-hap, there is to be a switch that cuts the power to the engine and ancillaries to prevent a potential fire or such like?? I imagine the vision was to put a isolation switch into one of the main battery cables to break the circut right?? Why do it that way??? Why not bring it in line with the rest of the motor sport standads in NZ, such as the spec's for circut cars, rally cars, trials trucks etc etc. They require a kill switch. The kill switch cuts power to everything, ingnition, fuel pump, ecu, absolutely everything. The battery circuit remains, i.e main power to starter, main earth to engine block. The reason I am querying this, is because in vehicle's such as mine, which is a very simple set up, where I have chosen to run dual batteries in parallel, with the engine and the winch running of the them both, a battery isolation switch doesn't really work. Firstly you need to find a isolation switch capable of handling the current drawn by the winch, 700amp is the max drawn by my Runva from memory. I can't even find one rated to that. Then there is the extra battery cable required. Obviously we are trying to run the heaviest cable we can get our hands on, so running monster battery cable into the cab, into a place where both driver and co driver can get to it is an issue, let alone finding a spot for the super sized 700Amp isolation switch. I don't see the point of doing that. Especially if the intention of the rule is what i suspect it is. The intention can be met through another method that is far simpler. If its good enough for all the on road motorsport factions, its certainly good enough for us!!!!!!!! Infact its even more relevant for us, as it means we don't compromise the principles of good electric winch set up.

Helmets

Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:04:24 GMT

Doing a stage without wearing a helmet should be a stage disqualification not the 10 point penalty that it presently is, given that its a reasonably important safety issue. [Modified by: Tim Fensom on 16 November 2009 21:10:23 ]

Chassis shortening versus axle movement

Wed, 14 Oct 2009 22:17:17 GMT

4.1 ...........The chassis may only be shortened forward of the front tyres and rearward of the rear tyres.......... 4.4 The wheel base may be altered by moving the axles either fwd or rearward from their OEM position provided they stay within the original chassis frame work. The way I read the above is you can move the axle so the wheels stick past the chassis as long as the axle is within the chassis dimension, but you can not shortern the chassis to achieve the same wheels protruding effect. I am suggesting that 4.1 be altered to read "the chassis may only be shortened forward of the front axle and rearward of the rear axle" Thoughts??

37 inch Tyres

Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:47:51 GMT

Comon Darin - Lets hear your reasons... L.O.L.

Club Class vehicle specs

Mon, 10 Aug 2009 02:16:18 GMT

OK, we need to sort out some vehicle specs for club class. As it currently stands someone could build a copy of the most modified Challenge class truck and compete in club class. I think this is unfair and not the intention of the class. I believe that we in effect have 2 types competing in the class. One is the guys who have a good club truck that want to do some competitions but don't really have any desire to compete at a higher level. The other are the guys who have built a new truck and have never raced before but want to get started and will eventually step up to Challenge class. I don't see any problem with either of these approaches and I think both need to be catered for. So is the answer to bring in some vehicle specs that apply after your first season racing? That way you can have a go in virtually anything like at present and if you like it decide where you are going to go? I think that the original concept was for guys to be able to race their relatively standard truck and not be too disadvantaged. Along those lines you would then be restricted to a production type vehicle so no major changes to suspension, diffs, wheel base, body etc. But you'd be allowed normal engine conversions etc. Under this sort of scenario what about lockers, tyres sizes, winches etc? The other side of it would be that as a novice you can run anything that complies with the Challenge rules but after your first season you must run Challenge class. We need to have these discussions now as the rules need to be set at the end of the year for next year and we don't want people to build trucks and then find they can't race them. Is this the sort of thing guys think should happen or am I way of the mark?

Question on rule 18.2

Thu, 15 Jan 2009 06:13:38 GMT

Hi there, I have a question about this rule, Im running a mid 80s toyota surf that has the factory fitted laminated glass sunroof, do i need to replace this with a bit of alloy or is it ok as is? Cheers [Modified by: Tim Fensom on 08 January 2009 18:20:13 ]

Travel fund

Mon, 08 Dec 2008 03:30:33 GMT

In 2010 the national final will be in the South Island. Should we set up a travel fund to assist those that we think should go to the SI to compete in the final? We could have a small levy from each entry fee that goes towards it or something like that? I think it would be a good think to be able to help those crossing Cook Strait by assisting with the ferry costs or something like that. Thoughts? Ideas?